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ducatipaso.org • View topic - Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:55 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Eastern Shore, MD
model: 750 Paso
year: 1988
Girls, Girls, GIRLS!!!!

You're both PRETTY, now stop the bickering and go to your respective garages!

Let be nice...... Can't we all just sing Kumbaya and hold hands??? :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:02 pm 
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There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
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92 907ie


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Australia
model: 906 Paso
year: 1989
AAww, come on Jon. I just got comfy with a 6 pack and a bowl of doritos. :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Location: Canberra, Australia
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:16 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

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Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


Last edited by higgy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:38 am
Posts: 338
Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1990
This 3D is really funny; it reminds me of the appleboys Vs. the-rest-of-the-universe discussions, you start exchanging simple views and opinions then you end with your throat slashed from ear to ear. :lol: :lol: :beer:

the sad part is that the fellow Pasoista asking for help, is probably thinking on investing 2 quid on some petrol and burn the bloody thing... :oops:


Lets make this clear: I have absolutely nothing to against Webers or Digiplexes, both are great pieced of equipment and both happily running well in my some of my family cars. :)

But it is a matter of fact that the Weber was NEVER intended for motorcycle use and that is its limit; there is no discussion on that.

There is NOT one single other motorcycle manufacturer (at least not in europe or japan) that used the weber set up, and this should be more than enough to make the point.

I am sorry , but the sound, the performance at sea level and on a straight are not good enough, at least not for me!

I like to ride my bike from the Highlands of the UK (where I live) down to the Apennino Tosco Emiliano where my Ducatis are developed passing through the Alps of Northen Italy (were I was born); for me the is the riding experience what counts most, it is paramount.

There is nothing like a "soso" tuning to upset and spoil the ride and I find silly having to spend hours in time and money , trying to get something work (by your own admission) when the solution is just at hand's grasp with a very small investment.

A solution that has been tested over and over againg on thousands of bikes.

As for the Digiplex, I never said it was the " failure of the Weber calibration in the Paso"

My exact words were: "I am also convinced that the idea of using the Digiplex was only because this way they could use different progressive advance maps with the intention of getting it to work ... unfortunately it did not."

I am sorry I expressed the concept in a very short sentence and it was sort of incomplete, therefore I will try to develop it better.

I believe ( again this is my opinion) the intention was to try to solve some issues Weber related by copying a partnership that used to work well on cars.

The Digiplex / Weber combination (not sure specificly about the DCNF) was very common in automotive aplications, it worked very well and probably was the best there was out there at the time ; It was so good that you could see the Digiplex (different model but overall the same system) fitted on very hiEnd cars such as the Ferrari 308, 328, 512BB, 400 and many more in partnership with either carbs or mechanical fuel injection.

One of the Criticisms that the Paso750 with the Kokusan modules had was the engine delivery: in fact it had two very clear "holes" in the engine performance, one at very low revs and one around the 3500-4000 rpm and this reflected in a poor riding experience at slow speeds or while picking up the engine in the tight corner exits.

The Digiplex was a very nice piece of kit with the multiple maps and it apperars to me that it was was the solution to the problem, in fact the 906 received very positive comments with regards to the engine performance and power delivery; of course it was a different engine, however it was clear that some of the problems emerged on the P750 engine performance had been addressed.

The Digiplex saw the light on few hundred P750 towards the end of its life; as I said I had two, one with the Kokusan and one with the DIGI and the latter , unfortunately, did not work, I had multiple failures and in the end I managed to get it sorted , but was never right or at least never as I wanted it to be.

The big issue with the Digiplex, was the fragility... so put it together with an already troublesome Carb and you have a recipe for a disaster.

Just open one and look inside and you will clearly see what I mean: some of the components were not suitable to withstand vibrations typical of the Vtwin, the eproms used to get loose and came out of their sockets, the motherboards used to crack in certain places, moisture used to get inside through the pressure switch and gave lots of problems where a lot of cold and moisture where present.

I am not 100% sure but I believe there were issues in the manufacturing. I remember seing different batches, in fact some had mo.bos sealed with resing compounds and those were "sort of OK", others had bare mo.bos with hand solded additional caps the size of a match box which looked like they were put toghether by blind monkeys.

I had 4 Digiplexes (two from a P750, one from a 906 and one from a Guzzi) and all of them had a very poor assembly quality , in fact 3 out of four were damaged.

Those issues could have been addressed by Marelli or Ducati, but that probably meant higher costs, so in the end Ducati reverted to the Kokusan which was simplier and equally effective (specially combined with the Mikunis).

As for the comparison 906 Vs 907ie (this is another story...) , I sort of agree... carbs are better specially in the very low revs and in particular when you pick up the throttle on exiting of a corner ( the very slow ones are the worse).

The reason is because the EFI is very harsh in those conditions and it took a whole new generation (probably two) of EFIs to sort out the problem (only partially tho'); Lets not forget that the Marelli P7 was developed for the car industry, so again it is an adaptation which works very well but has some defects.

I got used to it somehow and it does not bother me (its part of the 907s character) and I got the habit of exiting the tight corners with an extra gear and exploit the torque of the engine.

NOTE: the Eprom on the P7 is fitted on sockets (I have two and both have the same system) so that you can change Eprom according to the tuning; Sometimes they come lose from the sockets causing EFI failures. The solution is two small drops ofsilicone just to keep them in the socket.

:beer: :beer: :beer:


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:25 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

_________________
Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


Last edited by higgy on Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Location: UK
model: 907 I.E.
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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:26 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

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Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:33 pm 
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model: 907 I.E.
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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:19 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah

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Location: Gothenburg, SWEDEN
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1991
We need a popcorn smiley, :beer: is closest.

Nice catfight, entertaining & educational! :thumbup: :)

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907 I.E. -91
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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:38 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
Posts: 3259
Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

_________________
Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


Last edited by higgy on Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:29 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:14 pm 
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"Amal" ...............anyone? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Desperate for Carb help/replacement in Colorado
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:59 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

_________________
Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


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