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ducatipaso.org • View topic - Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:53 am 
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Last edited by romus on Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:36 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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year: 1987
nice writeup, Warwick. I hope you don`t mind that I add something for the guys who might be interested but are on a budget or don`t see the benefit of getting an LC-2 or the more expensive LM-2 if they only plan to do some adjustments on the Paso once or twice.
There are cheaper solutions that are of course not that sophisticated, but that`ll do the job.

But it can be done even cheaper and all you need is the weld-in bung, a sensor and a voltmeter.
If it`s in working order a used sensor will do fine. It should be one with 4 wires. Two are for the heating, two for the sensor. The manufacturer is not relevant. (the one I`m using is either from my old Fiat Tipo or Audi)
Find yourself a shop that does emission tests, who have an LM-2 or similar equipment.
Set your voltmeter to a low voltage range (i.e. max. 5VDC) and connect it to your sensor. (in parallel to the equipment the shop is using to read the sensor output).

With the engine at operating temperature and at idle adjust the mixture adjusting screw to first 11.8 (0,8La) and write down the voltage from the voltmeter or make a mark if you use an analog instrument. Then do the same for 12.5 (0,85La), then 13.2 (0,9La), then 14 (0,95La). More values are not need, but of course you can write down a few more.
Now you have your own AFR meter.

"La" means Lambda, which is the value we`re mostly using here. For a theoretical full coming burn you need one part of gasoline and 14.7 parts of air. Lambda is the value of supplied air in relation to the theoretically required amount of air. (hence La=AFR/14,7) See table below.
Just forget this info if it`s not relevant for you. I don`t intend to cause any confusion.



The global-tuning takes place basically in driving, because on a test stand only the full load (full power) area is tuned.
An engine has it`s max. performance with approx. 0,88La to 0,90La (rich mixture). The engine has smallest consumption with still acceptable running culture (smoothness) with approx. 0,90La to 0,95La. When accelerating it should be 0,8La, in order to receive a spontaneous acceleration.
With Lambda 1.0 to 1.1 the engine has the smallest pollutant proportions with smallest gasoline consumption, but also a smaller performance with increased gasoline consumption, with increased engine temperature and particularly with miserable runnig culture. At values under 0,7La (very rich) or over 1,2La (very lean) usually the ignition boundary is achieved; the engine stutters.

I do recommend to put some ceramic paste on the sensor plugs to prevent them from seizing.
It doesn`t happen that often but a few guys already lost one so it`s not a bad idea to have them drilled or just saw a small groove in the head and secure them with safety wire.



About the jumpy indicator. Doesn`t the LC-2 or LM-2 have a sensivity adjustment ?

G.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Location: Genua, Italy
model: 750 Paso
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Thank you guys, :beer: :beer: :beer:

I learnt more in a few posts of this forum than in all my long life :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I'm clearing my mind, and hopefully next to take some decision.
I will try with weber carburettor first. I do live in Italy, and i hope this might help somehow.
If i miss the goal i will look for a carburetors swap.

Thanks again

Sergio

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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:33 am 
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Location: Mildura ,Australia
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For general afr ratios at fixed rpm's the lm2's are a very usefull tool,but for very quick changes in afr (like the paso weber issues), you will find them lacking in response time.Even with the benifit of rpm and chrono mapping, the problems are still very hard to isolate precisely. J.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:58 am 
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data can be adjusted in the program.

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If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:10 am 
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A/F logging under load is still needed to get you in the right
neighbourhood of how to adjust jets/air etc.
Reading A/F IRL is just guessin...

My 2c.

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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:59 am 
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Location: Mildura ,Australia
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Just thought of something that clarifies my last post which was a long time ago.
The weber problems happen very briefly,whilst under acceleration.This is not a situation that can be continued by holding the throttle at a certain position.It happens and is gone within a second or two.
The lambda meter does not get a true reading of what is happening as the duration is too short.
lambda meters take several seconds to adjust to their true reading.
I hope this helps. J.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:18 pm 
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This is great stuff Warwick. I must say, I have always thought the air-corrector jet idea to be over rated. Standard setting is as big as the main jet. I dropped it to 90 and increased the mains to 180. I mean, your regular flat slide doesn't have anything like that so I figured at high rpm the Paso has a chance of running lean and I tried to get back to more traditional fuel feed concepts. When the AC jet was blanked it had some stutter on throttle opening so I guess it has some use. It certainly complicates the arrangement.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:42 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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I can`t say how fast that Lambda/AFR meter on ebay reacts. Some may react quicker than others. I know mine has a sensivity adjustment. However while instruments like an LM2 or others with datalogging and more functions are great tools not everyone is willing to spend hundreds on them just to fiddle with the carbs every now and then. A lambda/AFR meter like this is an inexpensive and imho sufficiant option for the occassional user (which is probably more than most forum members here are).


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:16 am 
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Location: Mildura ,Australia
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Please dont get me wrong,the lm2 and other cheaper meters without data logging,are very accurate instruments,and will show you a correct reading for most uses,but for split second readings,they only show the readings in the seconds leading up to the problem,and the seconds after.It is very difficult to get a definitie answer to what is happening at the precise moment as the reaction time is too slow.
For measuring readings under constant throttle conditions ,they are brilliant.
J.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:44 pm 
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There`s one thing I`m wondering about and I`m asking the following out of ignorance: if there is one of these brief moments which you can identify only in a datalog is it really possible to make a change on the carb to make an improvement at the exact point? I understand that on an injection system you can check the mapping and do a modification exactly there were the problem occurs but a carb imo has always been a rather unprecise instrument.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Location: Mildura ,Australia
model: 750 Paso
year: 1986
That's right G,Carbs are rather imprecise,and the point at which a problem occurs can change,due to gear
selections,throttle positions,terrain etc.That is why mapping is so effective,because different maps can be
made or computed for things like throttle position gear selection,and injection and ignition timing adjusted to optimise power delivery for different scenarios such as street,wet weather,or sports modes.

My work on the weber used the LM2 to identify where to start looking and then hundreds of adjustments/tests were conducted to 'feel' the differences.After a while you can tell if the changes are
helping from the way the weber behaves when cold,and learn what to expect from it once warm. J.


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 Post subject: Re: Wideband sensor for Air/Fuel Ration (AFR)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:48 pm 
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G Only Direct injection is capable of making changes that are not blanket corrections. Direct injection can make changes faster than the individual power stroke especially the 24 volts systems. Sequential injection comes close but still is a blanket correction. Electronic mapping is only limited by memory, Clock speed and speed of the injectors. Carbs could have been made to compete but why bother with such a complex and expensive option

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92 907ie


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