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ducatipaso.org • View topic - USD forks, altering front geometry???
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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Posts: 364
Location: Essex UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Honestly I would call that crazy. It would be easier and for sure a lot safer taking a full alloy tube, machine a thread on to it and use that as an extension for the fork.

G.[/quote]

I would like to extend the showa legs but then preload and damping adjusters will need to be adapted + spring spaced to suit. In the 70's you could buy slugs to extend BSA/ Triumph forks for choppers and these were considered a bit dodgy back then. What you're suggesting is similar. I think my solution is safer and easier.


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Location: Northern Germany / Kiel
model: 750 Paso
year: 1992
I am looking for a Multistrada or Hypermotard fork.
They should have the correct length...

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92` Ducati 907 i.e. - ST3-Conversion --> Burned down with my barn
78` Ducati 900 SS - Bevel --> Sved her by risking my life
90` Cagiva Freccia C12R - Paso`s smaller sister --> Burned down with my barn
86` Ducati 750 Paso
96` Cagiva 750 AC Elefant


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:40 pm 
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model: 907 I.E.
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Yes the multi and hyper are the correct length but also have more travel I think, maybe too much so the tyre might hit the rad. Not sure if 3 spoke wheels go in that type of fork either, the disc mount is different.


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:15 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
year: 1987


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:38 pm
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Location: Boston, MA
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1993
Years ago I grafted a set of ZX7 forks onto a 750 Sport I was racing at the time. It was a gamble, as the forks were nearly 2" shorter but I decided to take the chance - as is the bike just did not work on the track. It helped the handling of the bike tremendously. Years later I had a chance to compare wheelbase, rake and trail to a newer 900SS; with my completely arbitrary mods they were close to identical!

There are a lot of reasons that OEMs come up with the geometry they do, and not all of them are performance related. A key reason on the Paso is probably to accommodate suspension travel - if your new front end has less than you probably don't need the space. Plus, front end geometry isn't nearly as fickle as it's made out to be - check out this interesting article on the topic by chassis expert Tony Foale:

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/RakeEx/RakeEx.htm

I say try it as is. I would strongly recommend *against* welding to the triple clamps - first you're going to discover how bad some AL castings weld, then you're going to discover how useless a distorted triple clamp is. When it comes to suspension, stick to bolt on or machined parts, or welded steel.

If you just bolt together what you have, the worst case is that you're going to discover it doesn't feel right. In that case you're going to have to spend some money having someone make up a new set of triple clamps; but with those you can pretty much accommodate any geometry changes you want.

Good luck!

Sam


Last edited by samandkimberly on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:41 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:00 am
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Location: holland
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1991
I agree with Samandkimberly and Paso750.
changes that radical and from the point mechnical design the "modifications" can be classified as dangerous. Welding an unknown aluminium alloy is a risky business, I wouldn't dare. If you have extended threaded caps on top of your legs you move in to the right direction. Still it will be a weak spot.

I hope when you read the comments of other members, you reconsider your thoughts.

live wise!!

Bertus


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:36 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
The only thing I would have to say on the article by Tony Foale would be what you can get away with with 19 inch tires is far from what you can do with 17 inch wheels and most definitely dangerous when it come to 16 inch wheels.

The book he sells on his site is a must read for anyone contemplating any frame/front end mods
I read the original in 84,the same year I had the worst experience of my life as far as modifying 2 wheeled suspensions go,almost cured me permanently. JMNSH2C :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:59 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:35 am
Posts: 1793
Location: Newzealand
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
I thrashed this idea to bits a while ago, it was all to hard :banghead: . My plan was to see if there was enough overlap on the inner and outer tubes to allow the lenghtening of the damper rods and the fitting of spring spacers. every time i looked at lowering the whole fork assy i hit problems. Before you waste to much time have a good look at how your giong to "bearing " the SS lower clamp/spindle into the paso steering head. Tiz a great idea as ( me anyhow )am doing the 17" thing and have the whole front end of a 97 SS , and an up side down paso would be just the duck's nut's .I nearly went mad trying to figure the geometry, gain a bit here , loose it there, 17" wheel adds 1/2 an inch, bla bla bla, but it would look cool and , at the end of the day thats what counts :D

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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:10 am 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: southern Germany
model: 750 Paso
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what Tony Foale did was doing all his testing with the same fork so I don`t know how comparable this is to this situation. I wonder what the results were if not only the wheels were smaller as higgy mentioned but also the fork shorter which I think would change the weight balance of the bike towards the front.

G.

http://www.wilbers.de/en/fahrwerksgeometrie.php


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:04 pm 
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paso grand pooh-bah
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Location: Hilltown,Pennsylvania
model: 906 Paso
year: 1990
In my case G Here is what I had done to my 84 750VFR in an effort to "quickin my steering a bit"

installed a set of S&W progressive springs with a 3 inch preload spacer and went to 10w oil from 20w
New Metzlers in a track compound 18 inch rear 16 inch front
steering dampers,one on each side and lowered the tubes one inch in the trees
Incidental to these front end changes I had also installed rear sets and a Vance and Hines exhaust and lightened everything on the bike that at the time could be lightened which of course changed the distribution
on the bike " just a bit"

I was going just 40mph when the front end oscillation started

As they loaded me into the ambulance I still had the right side bar,master cylinder and half of a stainless line in my hand.

jm2c :beer: :beer:

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Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Location: Boston, MA
model: 907 I.E.
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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:16 pm 
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model: 906 Paso
year: 1990

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Ducati,making mechanics out of riders since 1946
There's no problem so bad that a little fixing can't make it worse! : )
If it ain't broke keep fixin it till it is
88 750
90 906
92 907ie


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Essex UK
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Thanks for your comments and links, all very interesting. I hadn't thought about the yoke distorting.
I want to(maybe) do this mod to a)improve the ride/handling, b)upgrade the forks, c)make the bike a bit trick. As I said previously Ive ridden a 907 with M1R maxton forks from a 888 that were 20mm shorter and it was fine.
I don't think the lowered front/steeper rake is a problem, the yokes I intend(ed) to use have a 4/5mm longer offset, don't know what that would do.
The parts I want to use are all spares I have so this is a cheapish mod. I'm seeing a friend at the weekend who does all kinds of mods to his bikes and is a specialist welder so I'll ask his opinion before I get in any deeper.
Cheers, Keith.


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 Post subject: Re: USD forks, altering front geometry???
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:16 am 
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Location: Pembrokeshire
model: 907 I.E.
year: 1992
Oh God you lot

Want to quicken the turn-in?

Sod altering yokes forks etc . . . . try a 16" front wheel . . .

Don't know if anyone's tried that on a Paso yet . . .

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